Wine Reviews
Wine Is a Long Shot at Solving the Windows Apps on Linux Problem Print
Written by Tom Wickline   
Monday, 18 January 2010 04:10
The open-source Wine project is less a solution and more a workaround when it comes to the issue of running Windows applications on Linux.

After devoting my last couple of columns to the topic of choosing an alternate OS (in particular, Linux) without giving up your Windows apps, I didn't plan on extending the discussion further that is, until a lively reader exchange prompted me to turn that pair of columns into a trio.

If we're to discuss Windows applications on Linux and other Unix-like operating systems, how can we forget about Wine, the open-source project devoted to building a sort of shim between the APIs that Windows applications require and the equivalents of those interfaces on a Linux machine?
I've been keeping tabs on Wine for as long as I've been following Linux, and my exclusion of Wine was less about having forgotten about it than about having set it aside at best as a “maybe someday” solution and at worst as an altogether lost cause. For a time, I hoped that Wine would be the answer to the Linux apps chicken-and-egg problem. However, things never quite worked out that way.

First off, many (it's probably safe to say most) Windows apps don't run under Wine at all. For instance, neither of the two Windows-bound applications that I miss the most as a Linux user iTunes and the VMware vSphere client works under Wine. In the case of iTunes, Wine lacks USB support, so there's no way to use it to communicate with my iPod Touch. The vSphere client relies on Version 3 of Microsoft's .NET framework, which Wine does not

What's more, even when it is possible to get your Windows apps running on Wine, various tweaks are often required to get there. For instance, while getting reacquainted with Wine to write this column, I found that the Windows apps I tried to run appeared on my desktop with jagged looking fonts. I managed to enable font anti-aliasing to address the issue, but only after fiddling around in the registry of my Wine installation.

Once you've gotten an application running, the next set of system updates you apply whether to your Linux machine, to the Windows app in question or to Wine itself could well sour your installation, requiring still more tweaking and forum searching.

For certain popular applications, you can save yourself some of this hassle by purchasing a Wine distribution such as Codeweavers CrossOver product as a way of outsourcing some of that tweaking and searching work. But if you need support from your application's vendor, I imagine you'll have a tough time finding Wine in any supported configurations matrix.

For all these reasons, I can't see Wine serving as a reliable option for addressing the Windows-apps-on-Linux problem. Rather, it's a workaround, something to keep in mind and try if you're in a pinch, but not something to count on.

Now, if, as the reader I discussed this with suggested, all the big Linux vendors got together and invested in Wine, I don't doubt that they could improve the project a great deal.

According to the project's bug tracker, some work toward USB support is under way, and versions of the .NET Framework earlier than the one I need for the vSphere client are reported to work.

However, these vendors have reacted toward Wine with unambiguous ambivalence for going on 10 years now. Considering how slow the projects and companies that drive Linux have been to seize on and integrate the largely Linux-powered apps of the Web into first-class citizens of their desktop distributions, it's tough to imagine them working hard to enlarge the application base for Windows.

Source


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whise 2010-01-18 05:28:31

this is somewhat an alarming post, i have no doubt that alarming post can sometimes help the
comunity grow because they sometimes unify people.

I always like to think that some day wine will
offer a greater compatibility with windows apps.

Wine is a great program, i believe that it needs
funding and i hope it gets what it diserves

sorry for the typos
There is VITUAL BOX
Lynne 2010-01-18 17:22:52

I have the latest greatest Virtual Box and I have use of USB ports an a shared folder with Win XP
Pro installed and guest drivers . . Have to go by olearys farm to get there but it works
It's not all bad!
Dan haworth 2010-01-18 07:16:04

Whilst I agree wine is far from perfect, I can happily say I've been pleasantly suprised by my last
few attempts at using it! It's always been the typical "need this old windows app to get
something done quickly" problem, extracting data from something and the like. Wines performed
admirably as of recent and I'm sure it can only get better as time goes on. I know copying windows
is like trying to hit a fast moving target with a foam dart but in all honesty, having a fairly
decent "winxp level" implemntation doesn't seem that far off now. Kudos to the wine devs I
say :)
Wine and stuff
davemc 2010-01-18 12:31:05

I agree. Wine is worlds of development away from becoming fully Windows compatible. You are 100%
correct in that assessment, but you miss the "point". Linux is not Windows, and nor does it
try to be; in point of fact, it tries to be everything Windows is not, and thats how we like it! You
also appear to think that Windows compatibility is a necessity, but nothing could be further from
the truth. You cite lac of iTunes (an incredibly closed and proprietary app) support in Linux and
then go on to point a finger of blame at the Wine project for that instead of at Apple for not
supporting thier user bases needs and not open sourcing the code so that Linux developers can make
it work. However, Linux has a plethora of media players and iTunes like apps that work natively in
Linux and some of them are fantastic like Amarok, Rhythmbox, Songbird, Exaile, etc. etc.. Why not
use those? You are also more than welcome to sponsor your own project rebased off the open source
code of the projects you love or contribute source code to them to improve them for yours and
everyone elses benefit...

Too much work? Too hard? I feel you there as I am not a developer (yet),
so I simply boycott proprietary systems that dont support Linux. You can also contribute to the Wine
project by posting your fixes and workarounds for the particular app you use, contribute $$$ to the
project so their overworked developers can feed their families, etc.

In short, wining and
complaining is not the Linux way, rather, thats the Windows/closed/proprietary way, because thats
your only option there if things dont work for you. If things dont work for you in Linux, YOU fix
it, or help to get it fixed and thereby help everyone else.
There is no Windows-apps-on-Linux problem
Jordy 2010-01-18 13:37:46

Or, I should say rather, that the problem is not that you can't get them to work reliably in Linux,
but that people are trying. Linux has it's own applications, that are perfectly capable of doing
what Windows apps do.

If you still can't live without Windows apps, well, why not just use Windows?

bbneo 2010-01-19 05:57:01

I agree. The problem isn't with WINE or Linux, it is with Windows.

Intuit wasn't smart enough
to embrace Linux this year, their TurboTax Online product seems to "discriminate" against
your Firefox browser if it is running on a Linux system as opposed to a Windows system.... doesn't
work quite right, buttons or distorted or in the wrong places. (Firefox 3.5 on fedora 11, Firefox
3.0 on fedora 10...)

I'll suck it up and boot into Windows off and on for a few weeks to get the
taxes done...

Get VMPlayer... install Windows as a virtual machine and then use that if you
*must*... after all, Windows has always been more of a "virtual" operating system than a
real one that you can depend on.
Frank Earl 2010-01-19 13:02:00

I might suggest you look into VirtualBox. Not only is it faster in many cases to VMPlayer, you
don't have to resort to trickery to make virtual machines (VMPlayer won't let you MAKE them- it only
PLAYS them. If you're making them with an eval Server license or other jiggery-pokery, you're
breaching the VMWare license)- and better yet, it is GPLed and there's even a good chance you might
even have it in your package repositories for installation.
One-A-N 2010-01-19 16:04:06

VMplayer *does* let you make new VMs, if you use the latest version (3.0, but not 2.5.3 and
earlier).
hiloguy 2010-01-18 13:52:48

After getting a lot of flack from some of the good folks on the Ubuntu Forums, I did buy Crossover
and it runs Photoshop without any glitches that I have yet encountered. I cannot use GIMP for my
work because I have to be able to submit artwork in CMYK color, which GIMP does not support. I also
installed Adobe PageMill that I still use on some Web applications and I did so as an
"unsupported program." It, too, works just fine in Ubuntu (9.10). Now if only I could get
my wifi glitch-free I'd be one happy guy!
Even MS Office doesn't run for me
Geoffrey Platt 2010-01-18 14:18:17

I thought MS Office was one of the gold-standard apps for running on Wine. I have Office 2000 and
Office XP, but both failed when I tried to install them on Wine (1.0) on Ubuntu 9.04.

Office 2000
failed to install. Office XP installed OK but every time I run it, it asks for registration
details. When I enter them, it just asks again. I can't get it to progress past that point. So,
I'm not impressed.
N. C. 2010-01-18 14:29:47

I never use Windows now and I haven't used Windows in a long time, they're two independent OS, and
if you want to use Windows apps, just use Windows, I have several media players that I use on Linux,
and I haven't had any problems downloading music to my Mp3 player, especially since they're so many
Mp3 players out in the market place that don't require iTunes.

Mac users used to complain about
they're not being Mac versions of Windows applications, Windows is an OS, just like Linux and Mac's
OS, why would Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot and make it easy for their competitors to take
away market share from them.

I don't have a problem with Microsoft wanting to make money or
keeping their code proprietary. I just don't think it the best OS out there. If you want to use
Windows apps, just stick with Windows and stop trying to make Linux into Windows, better yet just
set up your system to dual boot both Windows and Linux, that's what I did when I first started using
Linux because the early kernels didn't always support some hardware. I do have Windows on another
hard drive and I can dual boot to it if I want, I just don't a need for it, but my mother uses my
computer when she needs to print up programs and for her church, and she comfortable with Windows.
Linux is not Windows period!
N.C. 2010-01-18 14:31:40

I never use Windows now and I haven't used Windows in a long time, they're two independent OS, and
if you want to use Windows apps, just use Windows, I have several media players that I use on Linux,
and I haven't had any problems downloading music to my Mp3 player, especially since they're so many
Mp3 players out in the market place that don't require iTunes.

Mac users used to complain about
they're not being Mac versions of Windows applications, Windows is an OS, just like Linux and Mac's
OS, why would Microsoft shoot themselves in the foot and make it easy for their competitors to take
away market share from them.

I don't have a problem with Microsoft wanting to make money or
keeping their code proprietary. I just don't think it the best OS out there. If you want to use
Windows apps, just stick with Windows and stop trying to make Linux into Windows, better yet just
set up your system to dual boot both Windows and Linux, that's what I did when I first started using
Linux because the early kernels didn't always support some hardware. I do have Windows on another
hard drive and I can dual boot to it if I want, I just don't a need for it, but my mother uses my
computer when she needs to print up programs and for her church, and she comfortable with Windows.

Prof of Physics
Tom Herrmann 2010-01-18 16:20:33

My daughter, a newbie to Linux, managed to get World of Warcraft to run under Wine. But then a
couple of months ago they "updated" WOW and it broke under Wine. To bad! She had to go
back to Windows for her WOW fix. I've used Linux at work almost exclusively for >10 years, and have
tried to keep it that way at home, but there are two apps that Wine does not run: Quickbooks (for
my wife's business; her bookkeeper has to have it, and a commercial C-compiler for Atmel AVR uC's.
(I'm afraid the GNU AVR toolchain requires too darn much tweaking and its syntax is weird in places.
I want something that just runs. Sorry guys.)
Oops!
Tom Herrmann 2010-01-18 16:21:43

Oh, you mean *that* kind of title. ;-)
gnucash
bobbo 2010-01-29 07:11:09

gnucash can export quickbooks format files. easy to go back and forth, plus you can dump payroll to
an "online" vendor and download a quickbooks compatible file to put into GNUCash.

Not
perfect, but I've never needed something from Quickbooks that GNUCash didn't provide. As always be
sure to use the latest version.
Ugghhh WINE? = Pass.
Jammit 2010-01-18 18:28:18

First off: I hate you stupid people who leave feedback and use self speak to others like "OH I
use Win App Analblurter 4014.in VXL and the coding only shells via Dimwit K OPP .."

Great -only
you know what your talking about idiot - so that is probably best for everyone else that you keep
your crap that way.

Back to the main topic.

Yep the old WINE., OK to come in on the something for
nothing moan fest - without contributing anything of course.

I have used WINE for a few programs.,
like the "pretend" Texas Instruments TI-89 Titanium Emulator and of course - it didn't work;
along with a bunch of other applications - including Chess Master 10 or 11.

To wage war on the
peasants with the hearts and minds Booshisms, is crap, and the more intermediaries between the
desire or need and the getting done, the more pains in the arse there are going to be.

Years of
fighting with the idiots in Microsoft have taught me to just dump them and their Corporate Moron
Stupidity and crap software and go else where.

So I know that offering a better operating system as
compared to Microsoft's bug infested OS's, can only rely upon the "assimilation process" of
running everything on Linux that runs on Windows.

It's when this is the NORM, rather than the
exception, that is when MS will begin to totally lose all traction and can be kicked to the gutter
where it belongs - for the coupe de' gras.

This has to become the Linux mantra - "Everything MS
can run, we can run better".

Its been my experience that the more bullshit you have to
"do" instead of the getting done, are the ultimate detraction from any tool or
operation.

And if it's not a seamless "light bulb on, light bulb off" experience, then
people are just not going to use it.

My opinion, that the stepping from say Ubuntu, to WINE, and to
the program one wants to run through it, along with the possibilities and hassles... that can take
days and weeks or even months to learn how to get it to run..

Well what I want is to just drop the
installation CD into the drive and install and run it from there - because I don't have days, weeks
or months to go IQ raising, on process's that are several steps removed from the OS and "first
point" usage.

It's also been my expereince with "volunteering" that when I stick my
hand up and say, "I am willing to learn and follow through" - all these crawly committees of
the "Oh so noble" developers, with their heads up their own arses - they basically ignore
me.

The WINE "team" (?) have done the same.....

So they and their half baked applications
too - get passed over and so do my contributions.

Back to the main point - "If it works when I
use it - great; if not - pass and into the scrap bin of history it goes".

I think WINE is
destined to rot away, especially if and when or after the mainstream Linux distro's crack the run
everything that runs on everything else nut.

Sorry?
davemc 2010-01-18 18:39:10

but there are two apps that Wine does not run: Quickbooks (for
my wife's business; her
bookkeeper has to have it, and a commercial C-compiler for Atmel AVR uC's.
(I'm afraid
the GNU AVR toolchain requires too darn much tweaking and its syntax is weird in places.

I want something that just runs. Sorry guys.)
Quote:


That statement is funny because most of us "Linux geeks" run dual boot
systems (Windows and Linux), but all of us prefer to run Linux. I run Windows because I'm
a hardcore gamer and some games just don't run on Wine well enough for my needs. Its no
big deal. Really. There are 3 reasons for why you should prefer Linux to be your primary
OS:

1. Open Source/Free Software code is/will always be superior to closed source.
This is a fact that even now Microsoft has come to embrace (see their latest moves towards
Open Source project sponsorships and the Linux Foundation, Apache Foundation, etc.). Open
Source is not only the hotbed for innovation but is much less prone to long term bugs and
even the "cutting edge" stuff (Fedora 12, Ubuntu 9.10, Debian Testing, Sidux,
ArchLinux, etc.) is still very stable code and runs remarkably well. Slightly older
Distros like Debian Stable is a rock.

2. Virus free. Linux, MAC, and other UNIX's or UNIX
like is basically immune to all Windows Viruses. The exposure to flash/browser
based malware is minimal for many reasons. Your basically "safe and secure", as
opposed to Windows which is a ticking time bomb, but one thing we all know for sure, you
will get infected sooner or later as hostile crackers get more and more savvy every day.
Most recently, take a look at what happened to Google via simple IE7/8 exploit.

3.
Free/Open Source movement. Although most folks tend to look at Stallman as our
poster child and envision images of a 1960's Woodstock throwback band of Linux fanatics,
nothing could be further from reality these days. While we all dream of the day when
closed/proprietary models become a thing of the past (and that day will come - bank on
it!), we all live in the real world where Free Software must coexist with proprietary. Its
just how it is for now. We all work to help everyone "see the light" of the
superior Open Source model. The more folks like you put demand on proprietary software
vendors to support Linux, the more it will become a reality. We try everything we can to
make that "must have windows app" work via Wine, but if it wont work, then you
either submit your patch to make it work or you use Windows for the time that you have to
use it.
Mono is the "tipping point"?
Peter Henry 2010-01-18 22:55:47

Five years ago the price of harware became cheaper than the price of Windows - The incentive is there,
but Linux remains a nightmare of "distros" - too much choice! If MONO survives patent blight it, at least, provides a stable platform for .NET on LINUX
(and WINDOWS,MAC,IPHONE etc)

http://www.redtitan.com/news/linux.htm

Good luck choosing a mobile/cell phone then!
Anonymous 2010-01-20 04:49:06

And it would be interesting to watch you choosing breakfast cereal in a supermarket - I think you'll
find more choice and variety there. Especially if your favorite one is not there!
Wine is SUPPOSED to be a workaround
jonandtice 2010-01-19 03:04:53

In my opinion wine shouldn't be meant to be a solution, it should be a workaround. All I use wine
for is WOW (which works fine with some minor tweaks). If I needed to run 3 or 4 Windows apps, then
I need to dual-boot (which I haven't had to do in years). Linux+Wine isn't meant to be a free
Windows, that would be detrimental to the Linux model. BTW, if you use iTunes you have no business
using Linux.
Rapidocs
John Rose 2010-01-19 04:00:49

I use Wine when I really have to. For instance, I wanted to download and use some legal documents
from More Than's web site. More Than make you use the Rapidocs application which is very old but for
which there is no Linux equivalent or Linux software capable of importing Rapidocs files. However, I
found a Freeware version of Rapidocs which ran fine under Wine.
WINE has been obsolete for a decade
bjr 2010-01-19 11:37:07

Why would anyone waste their time running WINE when a vastly better solution exits, Virtualization.
Win4Lin solved the Windows on Linux problem 10 years ago by enabling Win98 on Linux. Today there are
a number of robust Virtualizers available which will run any flavor of Windows that you want on top
of Linux, KVM, VMWare, VirtualBox, Xen. I run W2K and XP VMs using VMware Server and KVM. I only
need a few Windows Apps, Quickbooks, TaxCut and Word. The VMs work perfectly.

With a Windows VM
you are running the real thing, not some kludge like WINE. If you want to use any Windows
applications you shouldn't have any objection to owning a Windows license to run them on. If you are
an opensource purist then you shouldn't be running any Windows apps. Either way you don't need WINE.
Virtualization
davemc 2010-01-19 13:14:31

Quote:
With a Windows VM
you are running the real thing, not some kludge like WINE. If you want to use
any Windows
applications you shouldn't have any objection to owning a Windows license to
run them on. If you are
an opensource purist then you shouldn't be running any Windows
apps. Either way you don't need WINE


This is a good solution for everything but games, which will not work under
virtualization. Recently, 3D support was added to VM's, but nothing that is compatible
with games designed some time this century. In effect, running Windows virtualized is
pretty much the same thing as running the same app via Wine with an additional software
layer making it even more of a resource hog, which begs the question - why run the
same app that nowadays runs fine on Wine with some tweaking, in a VM that doubles your
resource usages, additional OS bootup, etc. ?? Why not just dual boot Windows and avoid
all pain if you really are that desperate to run that closed source app? 

These days with
how well developed Wine is, I just cant find a logical reason not to use it for anything
but games, and for those your pretty much forced to dual boot.
The dream of Wine
mnassal 2010-01-19 13:14:32

As great as the concept is, Wine has failed to deliver. Over the years I have found that the Wine
team are unable to keep up with the changes in Windows and the MS based applications. It seems like
they are always 2 or three versions behind on application support. I realize that community updates
must be daunting, but it just doesn't cut it for me.

Virtualization is the only real solution at
this time.

mnassal
Stress Free Productivity http://sfp101.com
Wine Dreams
mnassal 2010-01-19 13:21:06

As great is the concept sounds, to never seems to make the mark. Over the years I have tried Wine
with one application after another and found it to be less than satisfying. It seems like the team
is always two or three versions behind on the Windows based applications. I realize that it must be
daunting for the community to try and keep up, but it continues to fall short.

The only real
solution at this time is virtualization.

mnassal
Stress Free Productivity http://sfp101.com
mnassal 2010-01-19 13:23:37

As great is the concept sounds, to never seems to make the mark. Over the years I have tried Wine
with one application after another and found it to be less than satisfying. It seems like the team
is always two or three versions behind on the Windows based applications. I realize that it must be
daunting for the community to try and keep up, but it continues to fall short.

The only real
solution at this time is virtualization.

mnassal
Stress Free Productivity http://sfp101.com
Whiners
Himer 2010-01-19 13:42:59

What a tossing Whining bitchfest. Congratulate the wine devs FFS, they have re-engineered an entire
OS. Congratulate the GNU devs, they have written an entire OS around a base kernel. Congratulate
the kernel devs, they support hardware whose vendors do not support us. Everything about Linux is
fantastic. Stop bitching about it. If you want Windows apps. Use Windows or shut the fuck up and
help. You people don't deserve to have an alternative to Windows.
Anonymous 2010-01-20 00:50:27

Everyone agrees on using Windows on a VM.
My conclusion for Linux, Wine & Windows.
RaymanPhilips 2010-01-19 14:30:24

I have settled down with Linux Mint. For me and my company,

1) Wine in linux is used for simple
programs like HJSplit or Wordweb. As a programmer, wordweb thesaurus is great for suggesting what to
use for variable names.

2) To run legacy windows apps, we install virtualbox. We already bought
full licenses for WinXp (not OEM license which are not transferable between machines). We are
planing to use the same Windows license on Linux VM (for a few required legacy softwares) for the
next 30 years.

Problem solved.
The Garage 2010-01-19 19:31:44

Wine lets me run Winamp & a bunch of it's wonderful plugins perfectly on linux [after a few tweaks
of course] and for that I am greatful. If done right, you can make it work perfectly.
iPod/iTunes as a block ... not really
linux__boy 2010-01-20 03:57:06

... when there is GtkPod and Amarok, both of which sync with the iPods and other such apple
contraptions.

And as a someone on another forum said - iPods sometimes bug under MacOSX - no
worries then ;-)

LB.
When Wine works, it is faster than using VirtualBo
Cay Horstmann 2010-01-20 04:01:41

I use Wine for running FrameMaker, and it works just fine, for which I am very grateful.
Interestingly, Ubuntu+Wine runs it faster than Windows Vista! Yes, I could run inside VirtualBox,
but that takes a lot of resources. So, Wine is great when it does work, which, as we all know, is
not all the time.
Not Unusual
C. Whitman 2010-01-20 06:19:00

In my experience, when Wine works, it generally runs programs that are not graphically intense
faster than Windows on the same hardware. There are exceptions to this, of course.
Sam 2010-01-21 10:53:07

You author of the article, you need so sorely your iTunes application? Why not move to Mac? Besides,
AMAROK versions 2.something look very much like iTunes (In fact, I am so depressed as to realize
that the Amarok team is just a bunch of iTunes copy cats).

For those who really want something
working (and not look like iTunes), I suggest the king: Amarok 1.4 (too bad is not supported, but
believe me, its better than iTunes and any newer screwed out amarok versions. My 2 dollars.
Wine is always progressing...
Joe Average 2010-01-21 15:07:08

I love Wine. Recent versions have worked well with several "test" WinXP era titles. We dual
boot for our kids' store bought games needs but I always try the titles under Wine to see how well
supported they are. Wine is always etting better just like the rest of the Linux universe!

I have
found most of my portable apps (utilities) work well under Wine. Not very useful to run apps
intended to fix Windows woes in Wine but worth a chuckle.

A friend stopped by the other day and
popped his thumb drive into the computer and found that a spacey sci-fi game he is hooked on worked
perfectly. In fact he did not realize he was using a computer running Linux. Thought it was just
some Windows theme package. Then he wanted to know ALL about Mint Linux KDE and has set his laptop
up to dual boot.

Wine Devs - keep up the good work. I appreciate it very much.

For you Tax
filing Linux users - I have filed using TaxAct for a few years now using the then current version of
Linux Opera. I try to use the services that accommodate Linux and Mac rather than try to make my
Linux box run some Windows-centric software whenever possible. I would like to use a Linux native
Solidworks if there were such a thing...
Itzamna 2010-01-22 12:55:46

I am very happy with WINE, all my games (save one) run in it flawlessly. Warhammer Online, World of
Warcraft, Neverwinter Nights 2, Unreal Tournament 3, Black & White 2, the Age of Empires series, ...
re: VM Products
Brainstorms 2010-01-26 17:46:02

Frank Earl wrote:
I might suggest you look into VirtualBox.


I strongly second that! I used VMware Player since 2.0, and grew tired of having to
download VMs from a website and install VMware Tools bootlegged out of the Workstation
trial download just to make it run properly.

Now I use Sun's VirtualBox (non-OSE)
version which is slick, fast, complete, and very user-friendly. Plus you can link their
repository directly to Ubuntu for updates.
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